The beginning of sin of David with Bathsheba, 2 Samuel 11

[EWP]

Some on the forum get a little twitchy when it is suggested people should marry younger than 18 even when that's quite legal in some countries. I personally know of people who married at 16 and who have remained married to this day.

I may get banned for even posting.

My wife and I got married at 18 and are still married 42 years later.
Some states allow you to marry at 16 with your parents permission.

As for David I agree that he sinned first when he covted his neighbor's wife (after he found out that she was married) and again when he committed adultery with her.

 

[MemeFan]

Assumptions are free, easy to make.
We all have operated under the assumption that she was nekked in her bathing, but it is possible that she was much more careful than that. Bringing a washcloth under a house dress or the equivalent.

I didn't mentioned any clothing. You did.

For me, point of modesty is avoiding getting unwanted male attention. Somehow Bathsheba totally fail getting attention? Why?

We don'g have any evidence regarding her feeling and thoughts because this part of Bible is David's story, we can't disregard possibility that she wanted king's attention.

I don't believed that only pool in whole Jerusalem was one where king's eyes could enjoy female of city. Lol.

Any noble with modicum of sense would understand that wife/daughters should bath away from king's eyes. And bunch of population too. So there should be other pools.

 

[MeganC]

When did the sin begin?

When David acted upon his desires and put them into action he sinned. He committed a lot of sins and not just one.

 

[Otto]

It is interesting to see the angst many people have around people being married as young as 18 when they are deemed legal to do so. They go apoplectic over the age your grandma got married at.

If everyone had to wait until they were mature before getting married, humans would die out!!

I guarantee if western society followed the instructions from the Father in Heaven - more girls would be getting married at 18 versus going out to college.

Reasoning: There is a bride price for taking a virgin, and a commandment to take her as his wife (with her father's approval). If the father dis-approves - and he took her virginity already - he still has to pay the bride price. If he can't afford it, then he is to be sold to slavery to cover his debt. The modern equivalent would be a prison sentence. And if the girl tries to hide the fact that a boyfriend already took her virginity, and ends up marrying another man (that did pay the bride price) - then there is Deuteronomy 22:13-21.

These instructions help keep sexual purity within the land. It punishes fornication, so one night stands with non-prostitutes would be much more rare due to being risky/expensive. Of course, western society celebrates that the Father in Heaven's instructions were nailed on the cross, so this is why people are getting married later. They want to rebel against the Father first, and worry about marriage later.

 

[Otto]

For me, point of modesty is avoiding getting unwanted male attention. Somehow Bathsheba totally fail getting attention? Why?

She may of assumed all the fighting men went to war.

David's sin wasn't the fact that he didn't go to war. After all, he has had his fair share of battles throughout the years. Furthermore, the Father in Heaven's Instructions allows men to choose not to fight in a war for personal reasons (recently married, planted a vineyard, just bought a house, etc). Deut 20:5-8.

Nor was David's sin going to the rooftop. Desiring women is not sin - as long as it's channeled righteously. Which is marriage and the responsibility that comes with it (physical and spiritual).

His sin started the moment he found out she was married, and chose to pursue her. That's when sin entered:

Genesis 4:7
But if you refuse to do what is righteous, then watch out! Sin is crouching at the door, eager to control you. But you must subdue it and be its master.

 

[frederick]

Desiring women is not sin - as long as it's channeled righteously.

I totally agree. This is the foundational difference between those who believe it is right and just for a man to have one wife or more, and those who believe it is a sin for any man to have more than one wife.

If one starts his or her thinking from what stands written, then David desiring an additional wife is not a sin. Nor is it a sin for other men to have that same desire. Desiring what is forbidden is sin and acting on that desire is also sin.

 

[Otto]

I totally agree. This is the foundational difference between those who believe it is right and just for a man to have one wife or more, and those who believe it is a sin for any man to have more than one wife.

If one starts his or her thinking from what stands written, then David desiring an additional wife is not a sin. Nor is it a sin for other men to have that same desire. Desiring what is forbidden is sin and acting on that desire is also sin.

1 John 3:4 - Sin is transgressing against the Father’s instructions.

A modern example would be a man seeing a beautiful young woman. He desires her, so he approaches her and asks if she has a man. Neither the man - nor the woman are in sin. If she says - yes - and if the man continues to pursue her - then sin has began to enter.

If she says no - then he is free to continue to engage - regardless if he already has a wife. He still has to watch out, however, because it’s sin to marry certain women (even if they are available for marriage).

 

[Maddog]

I totally agree. This is the foundational difference between those who believe it is right and just for a man to have one wife or more, and those who believe it is a sin for any man to have more than one wife.

If one starts his or her thinking from what stands written, then David desiring an additional wife is not a sin. Nor is it a sin for other men to have that same desire. Desiring what is forbidden is sin and acting on that desire is also sin.

Desiring is not sin. Actions are.

 

[frederick]

Desiring is not sin. Actions are.

Having a desire to do that which is sin, is also sin.

Matthew 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. The word  lust is translated from ἐπιθυμέω; to desire, to yearn for, lust or covet after.

Read James 4:1-4. See also Proverbs 6:25, Do not lust after her beauty in your heart. Cheers

 

[Maddog]

Having a desire to do that which is sin, is also sin.

Matthew 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. The word  lust is translated from ἐπιθυμέω; to desire, to yearn for, lust or covet after.

Read James 4:1-4. See also Proverbs 6:25, Do not lust after her beauty in your heart. Cheers

I just LOVE new commandments... BUT wait! Jesus did not give a new commandment. He said so plainly. So what will it be? A new one or NOT a new one?

 

[Otto]

I just LOVE new commandments... BUT wait! Jesus did not give a new commandment. He said so plainly. So what will it be? A new one or NOT a new one?

The 10th commandment - Do not desire/lust/covet after your neighbor’s wife.

It’s not a new commandment.

 

[Maddog]

lust, in and of itself is not a sin. It is the object that makes the sin. You can desire a woman, just NOT the wife of another man.
Coveting something that is NOT AVAILABLE is sin.

 

[frederick]

Coveting something that is NOT AVAILABLE is sin.

Exactly. That is a desire in a man's heart that is wrong, and that is sin.

Desiring is not sin. Actions are.

Coveting something that is NOT AVAILABLE is sin.

The 10th commandment - Do not desire/lust/covet after your neighbor’s wife.

Cheers

 

[Maddog]

then you cant desire anything... good OR bad Don't go shopping.

 

[MemeFan]

She may of assumed all the fighting men went to war.

David's sin wasn't the fact that he didn't go to war. After all, he has had his fair share of battles throughout the years. Furthermore, the Father in Heaven's Instructions allows men to choose not to fight in a war for personal reasons (recently married, planted a vineyard, just bought a house, etc). Deut 20:5-8.

Nor was David's sin going to the rooftop. Desiring women is not sin - as long as it's channeled righteously. Which is marriage and the responsibility that comes with it (physical and spiritual).

His sin started the moment he found out she was married, and chose to pursue her. That's when sin entered:

Genesis 4:7
But if you refuse to do what is righteous, then watch out! Sin is crouching at the door, eager to control you. But you must subdue it and be its master.

She almost certainly saw men of fighting age.

First, it's military idiocy to leave nobody to secure rear. Even in fixed battles in ancient times, generals always left somebody to guard camp.

How can you be sure another neighbor wouldn't try suprise attack or current enemy some raid? You can't, therefore rear must be protected.

Second, who did what would be now called police work? You know, murder investigations and catching thief. Women?

 

[MemeFan]

I guarantee if western society followed the instructions from the Father in Heaven - more girls would be getting married at 18 versus going out to college.

Reasoning: There is a bride price for taking a virgin, and a commandment to take her as his wife (with her father's approval). If the father dis-approves - and he took her virginity already - he still has to pay the bride price. If he can't afford it, then he is to be sold to slavery to cover his debt. The modern equivalent would be a prison sentence. And if the girl tries to hide the fact that a boyfriend already took her virginity, and ends up marrying another man (that did pay the bride price) - then there is Deuteronomy 22:13-21.

These instructions help keep sexual purity within the land. It punishes fornication, so one night stands with non-prostitutes would be much more rare due to being risky/expensive. Of course, western society celebrates that the Father in Heaven's instructions were nailed on the cross, so this is why people are getting married later. They want to rebel against the Father first, and worry about marriage later.

We don't need sexual purity and keeping younglimg sex inactive. You know how to do sex correct way.

 

[Mojo]

There’s an interesting twist that I read from a Jewish perspective. Some of their rabbis claim David didnt sin in adultery by taking Bathsheba.

There’s a claim that it was custom for soldiers to divorce their wives prior to going off to war so that if he was taken captive, she would be free to marry another lest he not return after a reasonable time.

Not sure of the historical accuracy but it’s a rabbinic thought.

 

[Otto]

There’s an interesting twist that I read from a Jewish perspective. Some of their rabbis claim David didnt sin in adultery by taking Bathsheba.

There’s a claim that it was custom for soldiers to divorce their wives prior to going off to war so that if he was taken captive, she would be free to marry another lest he not return after a reasonable time.

Not sure of the historical accuracy but it’s a rabbinic thought.

They like to make excuses for the giants of the faith. But I believe Scripture is very clear (2 Samuel 12:8). The word of the Father triumphs even when the majority of rabbis or popes go against him.

 

[frederick]

then you cant desire anything... good OR bad Don't go shopping.

Please read what I posted. I specifically quoted your post and said, Exactly.

Coveting something that is NOT AVAILABLE is sin.

Exactly. That is a desire in a man's heart that is wrong, and that is sin.

It is sin to continue to desire something that you have no right to. Shopping for something you have every right to purchase is not a sin.

 

[Mojo]

They like to make excuses for the giants of the faith. But I believe Scripture is very clear (2 Samuel 12:8). The word of the Father triumphs even when the majority of rabbis or popes go against him.

I don’t think it was an excuse of guilt, just not guilt of adultery (punishable by death, technically). Still a moral failing, just not capital worthy.

Also, Im not saying I buy the thought. It’s just another perspective.