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advise needed

J

jwh

New Member
This is going to be long & drawn out, but I do appreciate any input, both positive & negative.

My wife & I are God fearing Christians that have been backslidden for quite a while. I wont go into all those details, but lets just say we fell away.

In 2007, met a single mother & had an affair, both emotionally & physical. Let me point out a few years earlier I had the opportunity for a “one night stand” with a woman on an out of town work trip, & no-one would have been the wiser, but I couldn’t go through with it, & I couldn’t keep it from my wife, just couldn’t do that behind her back.

I’ll call my wife B & my girlfriend T. With T it was different, the 1st time we had sex, I was hooked on her, I knew I wouldn’t have done it if I didn’t love her, or at least thought I loved her. To be honest, the affair wasn’t really sexual in nature, & even though I enjoyed the planning of a secret meeting, I didn’t really enjoy the act, & at times I wondered if I only did it to keep her with me; as far as I know, & I do believe she was “faithful” to me during this time if I may use such a word. At other times, I felt like the only reason I was doing this was because that’s what people do when they are in love. In the period of the affair, the number of sexual encounters would be considered low.

Anyhow, I wont go into the details anymore than needed to convey what I am trying to get at.

This affair lasted over a year, T couldn’t take being a #2, hidden, & to be quite honest I knew she was a much better person than that. I tried to break it off several times, even telling her lies & so forth so she would leave me, I just couldn’t walk away & stay away. She eventually did what I told her to never do, & that was to start seeing someone. As it turns out, she basically did this to get rid of me because she couldn’t do it by herself either, & I think (she has kind of admitted this) that she thought I would leave my wife, & her original excuse was that “if you can have a wife, I may get a husband or boyfriend”. At the break up (late may of 2008), she was actually devastated that I wouldn’t continue with her. My only excuse was to her that I was married & she knew it when this started, & she had promised to remain with me forever, even if it meant being a secret. By this time, I had kinda resigned myself to the fact that I was stuck with her, & was trying to make it work out in my already too busy & confused mind. None the less, I was broken like I had never been broken, & even though I felt like I was one of the better whoremonger-hiders out there, I knew my wife (B) would figure out something was wrong with me. It took her less than a week, & I had to start confessing. The broken feelings like I felt with T just kind of went in the background, for the hurt I caused B hurt me tenfold.

Our marriage has been better than it ever has been in the last year, I love her more everyday. I miss T everyday, but most days it is bearable. I have been honest with my wife about my feelings as well as I can be, i.e., sometimes I don’t have an answer, so I just say Im ok when Im really not. Sometimes I hurt bad, & feel like the time isn’t right to talk about it (for her protection) & put it off until I can digest my thoughts. Keep in mind, this is all without the Lord’s help so far, I mean sure I prayed, B prayed & read the Bible, but I never really was seeking God’s face.

As far as T, she was still a part of my life in that she could call or email me in an emergency, & even though B would hurt each time something like this happened, she understood that T & I were in a secret relationship for over a year, things will come up that T just can’t go talk to anyone about. The last “problem” with T was an ill child, could be serious. I got the information on email, B told me “you better call her, she needs a friend”. So anyhow, during this year of only communicating slightly (even though it always seems to come along just in time to keep me from freaking out), I continually coaxed T that she would have to someday apologize to T, & accept responsibility for her part in this. I noticed she broke down a little each time, seemed to be getting closer, & had actually told me she was sorry but didn’t know if she could face B, & actually at other times said “I didn’t have the affair on her, you did, you deal with it.” Also during this year, I began to seek God more, not hard, but some. I told her often that God loved sinners, & to please seek him. We live in a small community, kids will be in the same school before long, I was really seeking peace. Other than that, we were all healing about as well as could be expected.

A month or so ago, T emails me she is getting baptized & has been attending a full gospel church, our old church actually. She is excited about the Lord, she emaild my wife & apologized, it looked like they are off to a good friendship, or at least a forgiving & respectful relationship. I was happy like never before, I turned up the heat on seeking the Lord. B has been praising the Lord, T has been praising the Lord, everything should be good, right? It went all wrong, & I hope I didn’t screw things up.

Up to this point, I told B (honestly) not to worry about the sex, what this affair was about is & was much deeper that a sexual act. Of course even though this is true, I didn’t really “deal” with the fact I had committed adultery. After seeking the Lord, the “death sentence” was as clear as day, shortly followed by the revelation that I was covered by the Blood of the Lamb. So now everything should be great, right?

It was at that point, I wondered what I had been up to, why I couldn’t let T go. What was wrong with me, why wasn’t I normal. I know I am in love with T. I know I love B, B doesn’t & hasn’t been able to replace whatever T fulfilled in my life. I mean it when I say I love B more & more everyday, & that love grows. I just kept hoping it would replace that empty spot in my heart, but the empty spot grows everytime my love grows for B. Also, I never used T to replace ANYTHING that B wasn’t doing, it wasn’t like I chased a new woman because I didn’t love my wife. Even through my affair, being brutally honest with T to the point that I hurt her often, telling her that B was “the love” of my life.

So here I am today, I told my wife yesterday about the thought I hold for T. Let me also say, I haven’t had thought of sexual relations about T. B took it bad, but she is better today. She asked me this morning or said something about, do they stiil have 2 wives like in Old Testament days. I didn’t take that as a green light to explore, but it did raise my curiousity also. Of course a little google-ing got me to this sight, as well as some other very informative ones. To be honest, I thought all polygamy was Morman related.

In closing, I’m not really sure if I have a question. I’m not sure if polygamy is even an option in this case. If it is, man, I see a lot of obstacles ahead. If its not, what do I do with this broken heart. B said yesterday (even before I did this research), ‘I don’t share well’ & also ‘I am not a sharing person’, I understand she could feel like she is loosing something, but the sad fact is she shares me as it is. As far as T, I don’t know her position, I do know she loves me more than any person she ever loves, I know that although I “shared” my love with her, no-one giving her all of their love has ever compared to the love I gave her.

I’m not really here asking for help on polygamy, I’m asking from people who may have been through similar experiences. I don’t want to go to my minister after several years of not attending church, especially if I spilled the whole beans (which I probably would) & jepordize T’s view in his eyes. Don’t take me wrong, this pastor is one of the Godliest men I know, but still is yet but a man, & could still be influenced by the things I would have to tell him. I thought about another pastor who I am friends with & could be totally honest, but I’m not ready to sit there & have someone distort the truth & tell me this CAN’T be love, when I understand it is love & have seen similar examples in the Bible. Don’t get me wrong, it was conceived n a sinful situation, I know that.

I don’t know where to turn, but without being selfish, I am starting to get concerned about me & my health, I am one hurting unit. I have also explained to B I cant live without her, that the hurt & miss I have for T is minor in the grand scheme of things, as in maybe I will live in this tormented state all my life, but without B I am sure my heart would not beat again.

jwh
 
Well, to put on the table what everyone knows, you got here by the stupidest possible route. But you know that as well as we do, and you're here, so thats good.

Anyone here could write pages on the theology behind polygamy and present application and things above that, and if you want that you can always ask, but it seems you're more interested in the destination than the path, and thats good too.

We can see very clearly why you have deep ties to T, most churches talk vaguely to their youth groups about how sex gives a piece of ones self to someone else, how its a lifelong bond, but we can try to help you make sense of the pieces as they fall in the real, non mono, world. See, you've said the death sentence was clear as day to you, and its true, the wages of sin are always death, so you had that like all the rest of us. But the sentence for what you actually did would never have been death, it would have been lifelong support of T. And you can search you're self and how you feel about the situation and see that that is true. And, decent guy as you are, I can see this is something you would accept if you could. Of course, you can't, not just like that anyway.

So, you're in a situation where you know what you need to do, and cannot do it. That is a pinch. First, if T wants nothing to do with you then there is nothing you can do but be absolved, if B will not have it, or it will make her critically unhappy, then you're exactly where you are now, having to let T go and suffering through you're own failure, and obviously you know how hard that is. The longshot, as you'd expect us here to say, is poly. It's not something to be looked at as a bonus for you, but rather the way to deal with you're relationships and actions like a responsible man. For that to happen, its primarily up to B, secondarily up to T, and pretty much totally out of you're hands, if they refuse there is nothing you can do, if they want it you cannot rightfully say no.

If you where to venture to mention the idea (and it may be wisest not too) you would have to approach in a way that B can understand. You hurt T, you feel obliged (NOT you want to) to take responsibility for her. Use empathy heavily, (T is not in a happy place, B can imagine how it would be) take the blame (you probably already know how to do that if you've worked things out so far) leave it in B's hands to think about it and talk to T about it, give her all the time she wants, use as little pressure as possible.

Now, talking about love. Love proper deals with self sacrifice, consideration of others, positive action. Clearly you have shown love to B, probably you have shown love to T, but you're relationship with T as described seems to consist of infatuation and obligation. There's nothing wrong with that, both are ultimately good things, but of course loving T, or loving anyone deals with looking out for what is best for them, and taking actions in their best interests. The feelings for T in the past where attraction, the feelings now are obligation, but love deals with action. Coming here, putting things on the line to talk to people and try to figure out the best thing to do for both of them, that is love.

Perhaps you know that, but in the end understanding love proper is one of the most important things in life, so I don't apologize if that is re-iteration.

I hope we can help you work through this. It sounds like you have already worked through an affair much better than most have. Its a tough situation and I am grateful if I can be of any aid.

Bless you,
Jair
 
thank you
i appreciate your support, i do however know the difference between love & infatuation, at least im pretty sure i do :)
running late
peace & love
j
 
Dear jwh,

I concur wholeheartedly with Jair. Through Christ, he is wise beyond his years and has given you solid advice. Something that you have to know, (please do not be offended by this) is that you are immature in the Lord. Having said that then let me say that you have clearly come to the right place, because there are a number of wonderful people on this web site who are very mature in the Lord. I am also one of them. Thus, I believe that the Holy Spirit brought you to the right place. I too came here because I had heard from God about polygyny, (i.e., one man with more than one wife) and the end-time fulfillment of Isaiah chapter 4. I have been preaching it for several years, but to date only have one wife. I am a teacher of the Word and nearly everyone who studied under me left because of this revelation. For a long time I felt as if I was the only one who had this revelation. Then like you, in November, 2008, I did a Google search and found this, as well as other sites. I have found this site to be the most helpful to me personally and have recommended it to others. Having laid some background for you, let me give you my input. I prayed about it and believe that this is what God showed me...

As Jair said, you have come here by way of a very stupid route, but that is how most of us actually get to the right place in Christ. I do not know anyone personally who has done otherwise, including myself. I can give you a whole laundry list of my own stupidity down through the years. Be that as it may, you have finally come to the right place with this web site, but more importantly with your attitude. You see we suffer in this life, so that hopefully we will get to the place in Christ that we will not suffer in the next. I teach people that we suffer for two reasons, one for our own stupidity, (which you are now well aware of) and the other is suffering for righteousness sake, (i.e., for doing the right thing). We get extra credit from God for the latter, but not the former. However, both types of suffering will do us good in the end. Suffering for our stupidity will help us learn from our mistakes and grow away from the desire to continue in the stupidity. Suffering for doing the right thing will help us understand what it feels like to be hated without a cause. In this way we will never want to go against God for any reason, especially when He gives us eternal life, because that is where Lucifer got it wrong, (but that is another story). I believe that you have learned a hard lesson from the suffering that you have endured as a result of the affair with T. Now it is time for God to set things right, if you will only step out of the way and let Him handle it from here on out, no matter the outcome. In other words, DO NOTHING that you are not hearing from God to do. If you pray about the thing and believe that God is telling you to do something, then do so quickly, otherwise, take your hands off of it. Ideally, you would stay married to B and take T as a second wife. However, there is no guarantee that this will be the case, but none-the-less, I believe that is exactly what you should be praying very hard every day to come to pass. Do so without a doubt in your mind that this is the right thing for all parties involved. However, know in your heart that it may not come to pass and let God know you are okay with that. If it happens, great you can write a book that we can all learn from. If it does not come to pass that way, then by the grace of God, you will get over it. I never thought I would ever get over my first love, but I did, it just took about 20 years and I never had sex with her. However, God can take the feelings for someone out of your heart in an instant if necessary, so if things do not work out as we hope, then just ask God to take the pain away and he will, guaranteed.

When I prayed about your situation, God spoke to me about David and Bathsheba. David did an even more stupid thing with Bathsheba than you did with T, but in time God worked it out in David's favor, because he had a contrite heart before the Lord. If you will do the same, give this situation to God to handle, trust in Him to do so and be strictly and quickly obedient to the Holy Spirit, then God will do the same for you. You must remember that both B and T have their own free will and must CHOOSE for themselves what they want. However, you can pray for God's will in their hearts and minds as well. However, anything that you do in the flesh to override their free will is witchcraft and will NOT be blessed of the Lord. Thus, you must keep your prayers on the situation, but KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF of it. You must make up your mind that you, like David when he was shown the error of his ways and decided that whatever God did was fine with him, so it must be for you and God must believe that you mean it. So you may be tested in this like Abraham was. That is why it may take some time, so that God will test your patience. Patience is the first and most important characteristic of love, (I Cor. 13). You need to take your eyes off yourself, put them squarely on Christ and not put them on either B or T. Christ must be first in your life, or the other things will fall apart. You now know that now, so make up your mind and DO NOT WAVER in this area or the enemy will be all over this.

I will pray for you and am here if you want further advice. You may post here and I will check, send me a private message here, an e-mail at perfection777@live.com or visit my web site at http://www.perfectchristian.110mb.com. Just trust in the Lord and do not rely on your own understanding. If you try to figure it out in your natural mind, you will get it wrong every time.

Be blessed,

Dr. Ray
 
Thank you both, & yes, I understand I am imature in the Lord
I do want to touch on my previous christian life, it wasnt just church going, it was a spirit filled Christ filled life, but it became more of a winning souls & numbers game than truley worshipping God, along with a severe tragedy with a child, i just turned the other way, meaning i was knowledgeable, but didnt have roots, but it wasnt all fake either. I took on to much of the Lords work too fast, instead of truley getting to know him.
In my current search for the Lord, as imature as I may be, I have never hungered for the Word like I am now, I have never seeked God like I am now, & to make it clear, my prayers & reading arent centered on the situation & "oh God, please get me out of this mess", & I have benn praying for both of them as well as myself to hear God's will on this matter.
Of course I wouldnt be here specifically if I had doubts about the morality of polygamy, no doubt in my mind it is perfectly acceptable & holy. My fears come from, is it for me, is it for us.
As far as practicle application, I do understand that yes, B would be the first place it had to clear, & then T. I also understand that I need to keep out of this, but it's hard. I just want to tell B EVERYTHING thats going through my mind, & let the chips fall where they may, but on the other hand I dont want to hurt her again & again. I do know this, am slightly confused, & confusion is not of Jesus, so I wait & seek the Lord.
Funny you mentioned David, I have a heart like David, even backslidden I often pray for & try to do something good for my enemys (as in business competition, etc), I have been faced with many real life situations where I have made friends from enemys simply by forgiving people & reaching out to them in their time of need. I've recently been reading the Kings & Samuels just for the encouragement of a real guy like David that loved people when most people wouldnt have. To me, he seems like the perfect example of Jesus, of course without the sin.
I know i ramble on, so please forgive me, but again, thank you for your advise, more importantly for your prayers.

love
j
 
J,

Please let me clarify by the Word what I meant by immature. I did not mean that you do not have a relationship with the Lord or that you have no experience. What I meant is what the writer of Hebrews said as follows...

Hebrews 5:12-6:8 -

12For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Chapter 6

1Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3And this we will do if God permits. 4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. 7For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.

In another translation 5:11-14 reads like this...


A Call to Spiritual Growth

11 There is so much more we would like to say about this. But you don’t seem to listen, so it’s hard to make you understand. 12 You have been Christians a long time now, and you ought to be teaching others. Instead, you need someone to teach you again the basic things a beginner must learn about the Scriptures. You are like babies who drink only milk and cannot eat solid food. 13 And a person who is living on milk isn’t very far along in the Christian life and doesn’t know much about doing what is right. 14 Solid food is for those who are mature, who have trained themselves to recognize the difference between right and wrong and then do what is right.

Holy Bible, New Living Translation, (Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, Inc.) 1996.

A mature Christian would not have gone down the road you went down and would not be in the situation. This is what I meant. I did not mean it in a derogatory way. It is simply the truth. The vision of the eternal destruction that you had is real according to these scriptures and Hebrews 10:26-31 -

26For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

The Holy Bible, New King James Version, (Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson, Inc.) 1982.

What God spoke to me about David should be confirmation for you that you are on the right track here and we can help you, through the grace of God in our lives. What God told me about needing to turn it over to Him is also confirmation, since you stated that you are wanting to release your thoughts on B. I believe that this would be a mistake, so pray for strength NOT to do it. The other thing God showed me is that if B said something about having two wives, it is in her heart, (Matt. 12:34-35). If she was totally against it, then she would not have said anything. Thus, you need to let God work in her to square this thing away. It is awesome that the Holy Spirit is working in all three of you. This means there is hope for reconciliation and resolution. Just WAIT on the Lord. This is the most important thing I can say. It will happen in His time. Perfection or maturity in Christ is my main ministry. That is likely why God had me look at and respond to your post so quickly. We were both online at the same time today, even though I am in South Africa! I was writing my response to you even as you were responding to Jair's post. :) Just keep moving in the right direction and you will get there by the grace of God.

Keep us posted.

Be blessed,

Ray
 
Dear JWH,

You are forgiven, my friend. You have confessed your sins, and brought them before the Lord. His sacrifice on the cross has eliminated them. Do not let your heart be troubled.

We see example after example in the Scriptures of how God can take seemingly impossible situations, and turn them around for good for His glory. I believe that your situation is one that God specializes.

But, it is not hopeless. The good news is that everyone is aware of the situation as it now stands. Truth is a great way to cast out fear and defeat.

Obviously, the Lord brought you to the Biblical Families site for a reason. I believe that reason is restoration and new beginnings.

Here is what I suggest:

1. Read through the various forums on the site. Become familiar with some of the issues and questions that have come up. You will find others who have experienced similar situations to yours. You will also find families who are making plural families work successfully, and my friend, you need a success story!

2. Schedule a conference call, meeting or whatever with yourself, B & T altogether. Confess your faults (as one to another, in this case Y O U), and explain to them the work of repentance and forgiveness that the Lord has performed in your heart. During this conversation, simply share your heart regarding the feelings that you have for each of them. BE HONEST.

3. Share with them some of what you have learned from the site. Be prepared for a negative reaction. Simply share with them that you have been seeking the Lord for a resolution to this issue, and that he brought you to Biblical Families. Encourage them to visit the site for themselves and read some of the posts, ESPECIALLY THOSE FOR LADIES ONLY!

4. Pray, then pray again. And then, when you are done praying, pray again.

There are only three possible outcomes: both will reject you, one will reject you, both will accept you. Be prepared for any of those possibilities.

One thing is for sure, you can no longer live a life of deception and half-truths. If you continue in this path, you will lose your relationship with the Lord, and all the negative things that goes along with that.

I will personally be praying for you, and waiting with expectation to hear how God is working in this situation. My brother, it is not too hard for Him, I promise.

If you need a place of spiritual accountability that will not create havoc in your own local relationships, please know that we are here to serve in that capacity.

Please feel free to email me directly at doc@biblicalfamilies.org

Blessings,
 
Growing up too fast

I met Cal Bombay back in the 90's, he taught quite a few things that stuck with me, but one thing in particular stands out to me here for you. Aside from his Saudi slave freeing missions ect he's an old farmer that still keeps his place up when he's on the continent. At one point he lost all his laying chickens, I think it was because a storm caused the coop to collapse, anyway, he bought new ones. They grew up very fast, but at about 6-8 weeks they started breaking their legs under their own weight. It turns out he got heavily hybridized chickens for fast growth and slaughter, they couldn't even live out their lives to be egg laying chickens. He went on to say how he saw such a similar thing in the church today, a lot of encouraging fire and passion and going all out without the time and temperance someone needs to keep it up.

I've seen this in action a disturbing number of times since. A church gets someone with passion that is willing to do things, and they use them and push them and use them until the person gets tired, then the person gets flack for not being dedicated enough, and gets pushed more until they hit a breaking point. Or else someone is brought in, and experiences the good things of the Lord, but is fed nothing but passion and doesn't get the self-discipline and cool understanding that needs to accompany fire to stop someone from burning out. I have no doubt what you had was real, and that lack of rooting is an all too common problem.

Well, difficult times drive us to seek God, so it all works out for good.

We've all messed up in different ways here, it's all just things to grow from. Now you've come here with you're situation, which is a major thing, and we've been trying to help with what we know. Now we know about you're situation and really care about it, and really do pray it works out as best as possible for all three of you. It's good meeting you, and thank you for the opportunity to help.

I think its worth mentioning that Ray has the gift of healing, and understands it. I had fibromyalga related paralysis for a few years and it was just healed a couple months ago. Ray always speaks well of people and has high praises, but really I'm the youngest and weakest of the regulars here, pick you're regular and you'll find someone with at least a decade of experience over me. I talk a big game but I feel I should put myself in context.

Thanks for bringing up David Raymond, he is the best person to look at for this case bar none.

And, like Doc said, if you can get the girls talking to the other ladies on this site it will do more for you than you can do you're self.

Bless you all,
Jair
 
well, i lost a post, but, here is what i was saying

thank you all, you have told me what i know in my heart, #1, seek God & get my hands, heart & feet out of it, basically "shut up & pray"

i wont ramble on about the story, but will thank posters to keep the thread alive, of course i will answer any questions that come up & offer updates as they come

thanks for being hard lined honest with me, & most of all for holding me in your prayers

& also thank you for not shoving poly down my throat as doctrine

love
j
 
Dear J.

In the beginning you asked if anyone had experienced this. I know a couple of families that got their beginnings this way. The reality is that everyone makes choices that impact them and their loved ones. You made some choices that you probably shouldn't have made. But we are all human and we all do this. So in the end it isn't how you got here, but that you got here.

You have already caused a lot of hurt. It sounds like your wife understands the ties between you and your lady and she is a very caring woman. You are lucky to have her. Now the best thing for you to do is to do no more harm. Your wife or your lady is welcome to write to girlsonly@biblicalfamilies.org to talk to one of us personally if they are intimidated by the online forum. This is a painful place to be, but the good newsis that it gets better from here. And not only if they both decide to accept you. Once you put this on the table, you will get to see God's love in action. Your wife may be very angry for a while. The reason for this is that she had thought that if she was forgiving and caring and loving and longsuffering, that in the end she would get her marriage back the way it was and she could move forward from there. Unfortunately, that isn't possible. There is no going back. Even if your lady leaves you and you never look at another woman again as long as you live, there is still no going back. Look at this analogy...

A soldier goes to war. He leaves his wife at home for a year while he is gone. He is injured and loses an arm while he is gone. He comes home to begin his civilian life over. What does the wife do? Does she tell him to go back and not come home without the missing piece. NO. She learns to love the man he has become, complete with the physical changes. In this case, the injury is emotional, but no less scarring. Your wife needs to learn to love the man you have become and move forward in your relationship.

And in the end, I believe that she wouldn't want the old relationship back. The old relationship is what led to this place of pain for all of you. The reality is that the three of you, if properly handled can go forward, and have the healthiest relationships you have ever had, because you have learned that people really do matter and that relationships are so very important.

Please talk to your wife first. Tell her what you have learned and even explore our site and others together. When she has questions, email them or post them, however she is most comfortable. If she needs to talk on the phone, we can arrange that as well. This is not easy and she will need help through her anger and fear. But we can do that.

After you have talked to your wife and come to a conclusion between the two of you, then you can broach the subject with your lady. I promise you that you will not enjoy this process, but it is worth going through.

You are in my prayers. Your family is welcome to email us at anytime.

In Christ's service

SweetLissa
 
Sweetlissa, you brought me to the point of tears with this post. Very profound indeed!

J,

I agree with all of the above, with one exception. Please pray and get the 'go ahead' from God BEFORE discussing the idea of polygyny and this site with your wife B. It is critical that the Holy Spirit prepare her heart BEFORE you even try to speak to her about it, let alone offer this site's resources or have a three way conversation between you, B and T. No offense Doc, but I feel very strongly that this is what God is telling me. I will use my wife as an example. She is a prophet by ministry gift. God spoke through her in our home church in Kansas City when I got this revelation from God about polygyny several years ago, before God moved us to South Africa. She KNOWS directly from God that this IS for us. Yet to this day, she refuses to even read the posts on this site or any other about polygyny. Why? Because she is stubborn and selfish, just like any of us are. We have to make room for those human shortcomings in each other, (Eph. 4:2) and NOT try to overcome another's free will. I do not force the issue with her, as it will happen in God's time. PERIOD. If we try to 'work these things out' in our own understanding, then it will likely NOT end up the way that God intends. The way that SEEMS right to us will always end up in 'death' and destruction, (Prov. 14:12). Please therefore, pray and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit as 'in the good ole' days' of your walk that you are getting back to. Remember how God woked in your life when you slayed the bear and the lion and this Goliath will be no match for God in you.

Be blessed,

Ray
 
No offense taken, DrRay. I want jwh to be obedient to the Holy Spirit as well.

Blessings,
 
thanks
i have had some private emails, offers of personal PM mentoring & so forth, you know who you are, thank you, im not ready to take that step yet

as advise goes, its going to differ a little from person to person, even in a forum like this, but i appreciate everyones input

my spirit, although it can be impatient, is lining up with rays in that im seriously seeking guidence from the Holy Spirit

i said i wouldnt ramble, but i will probably a little

B & T exchanged emails yesterday, not about this subject, just part of the ongoing healing between them, thats a good thing, & i can take more pain in my heart if it helps others, meaning there isnt much im going to do until i am clear with the Holy Spirit

I wouldnt be here if I thought this was unholy, but keep in mind, my first goal isnt to have poly lessons (although again i say, i do appreciate all the suggestions!!!!), i just needed some people to talk to that would understand how i can be in love with another...B & I had a nice talk yesterday, I'll summarize it, as she is hurt & scared, & I may be right & wrong on some of what i told her...

I said "yes, i love you with all my heart, because my heart & your were joined many years ago, & i love you with all that heart..but i fooleshly joined myself with another heart, & as much as i have tried, there is nothing that you can do or I can hide that will make that go away, although i know God can remove it, I still have a obligation to T, & again, its not based on lustful thoughts"....i also went on to tell her that she by herself doesnt complete me anymore, but also explained how much less T would complete me by herself. I know B is afriad I will just decide to run off with T someday, but I wont. Like i said in my OP, I can live with this pain if needed, but I cant live without B.

hey, also, i looked at some other forums (christian marriage kinds), they would have been on me like pit bulls on chickens, i do appreciate the non judgemental bible based input..at 45 years old, im not really interested in re-learning how to argue God's Word isnt what it is, thats the nice thing about being "new" in the Word again, it's more alive than i ever remember it

last note, i may drop you a note ray, just to visit as i am close to KC myself

God Bless you all!!!!!!!!!!
love
j
 
I was able to take Tonya & her daughter out last evening (with my wifes support & approval), just basically went for a ride & shared with her some things from The Lord. Took her back home & got to pray with her on these things. The plan was for her to then come over to our house & meet Brenda face to face for the first time, but a big glich came up where some of my kids were coming home a day early from a short trip. Tonya got unnerved & said she wouldnt come now, unless they left early (they live across the street from me).

Im telling you, satan was at every corner last week, putting me at odds with Brenda, at odds with Tonya, & now trying to make sure they didnt meet. Bro Ray & many other have warned me to not moved w/o clear direction, the problem is, sometimes I dont know until its too late!! Im learning though. I certainly didnt fight those spiritual battles last week by trying to fight with either woman, it was a prayerful week to say the least.

Anyhow, the anger towards the situation that I left Tonya with was the same I encountered from Brenda when I got home & explained the situation, she said exactly what I knew she would say, "You got your date, & now I'm stuck holding the bag again". Plus we couldnt really talk it out, kids had just showed with a new dog. So I just suggested Brenda may want to email her & apologize, that she was dissapointed to. As it turned out, Brenda set up a meeting & we just went over to Tonyas for a visit. Wasnt a peayer meeting or anything, just an ice breaker, went fine.

Pray for them, I'm just sitting this out, I hope they will continue to talk, see each other. They are both very important to me & what The Lord would have me do in this life. I'm actually seeing that this isnt about me, my needs, & wants.

With Love,
John
 
Now that you have realized it, no matter what the outcome, you will be a better man, husband and father. Great job fighting the spiritual battles this week and not choosing to fight with the ladies. They need your love and support, not your anger.

I will keep praying for your ladies this week as well as for you. Please let both T and B know that I am available if they need to talk. You can give them my email address if you wish.

SweetLIssa
 
It looks like you've come to a really good place. No mater what happens them know each other is a good thing that will help everyone understand what happened and come to terms with it even better.

Bless you,

Jair
 
jwh,

Praise God, I think you are finally getting it! I will continue to pray for you and yours. Just keep you right ear open to what God is saying to you. You will need to be quiet to hear. Then do whatever He says, quickly and exactly. I like the following scripture in the New Living Translation...

Genesis 6:22 -

22 So Noah did everything exactly as God had commanded him.

Holy Bible, New Living Translation, (Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, Inc.) 1996.

I like to add that we should do so quickly as well. However, if we can get to this place then we will have accomplished something.

Be blessed,

Ray
 
Wow! What a wild ride you and your family are experiencing!

I love your open heart, and the wise advice from so many others at this site. In fact, I have just one question to pose.

In your initial post, you mentioned that your wife, B, brought up the possibility of Plural Marriage, asking if they still have that nowadays.

I assume that, without pushing, you HAVE answered that question to one or both of them, right?

Yes, they do. Some successfully, others poorly.

In a book I recently read about the mindset and habits of wealthy folks, (Oh! To join their ranks!) the author noted that money doesn't change folks, it is simply an amplifier. He claimed that if you are truly a kind and thoughtful person, having lots of money will only provide you with more opportunity to practice kindness, whereas if you are a tightwad or arrogant or mean, having more simply provides a broader canvas on which to display those characteristics.

I propose that a similar situation exists as regards plural marriage. It will act as an amplifier. If, at your core you are striving to be a kind, loving, thoughtful, responsible, open, honest husband, that will (in time) become doubly apparent to all within your family as you sort this situation out, and move forward with gentle compassion. If, at your core, you are a sneaky self-serving son-of-a-gun (which it doesn't sound like), that too will become increasingly apparent.

Take heart. For what it is worth, I venture to guess that we're all proud of the three of you for the progress you are making, one step at a time.
CecilW
 
Wow! What a wild ride you and your family are experiencing!

I love your open heart, and the wise advice from so many others at this site. In fact, I have just one question to pose.

In your initial post, you mentioned that your wife, B, brought up the possibility of Plural Marriage, asking if they still have that nowadays.

I assume that, without pushing, you HAVE answered that question to one or both of them, right?

Yes, they do. Some successfully, others poorly.

In a book I recently read about the mindset and habits of wealthy folks, (Oh! To join their ranks!) the author noted that money doesn't change folks, it is simply an amplifier. He claimed that if you are truly a kind and thoughtful person, having lots of money will only provide you with more opportunity to practice kindness, whereas if you are a tightwad or arrogant or mean, having more simply provides a broader canvas on which to display those characteristics.

I propose that a similar situation exists as regards plural marriage. It will act as an amplifier. If, at your core you are striving to be a kind, loving, thoughtful, responsible, open, honest husband, that will (in time) become doubly apparent to all within your family as you sort this situation out, and move forward with gentle compassion. If, at your core, you are a sneaky self-serving son-of-a-gun (which it doesn't sound like), that too will become increasingly apparent.

Take heart. For what it is worth, I venture to guess that we're all proud of the three of you for the progress you are making, one step at a time.
CecilW
 
Cecil
Thanks for jumping in.

Brenda does know, I mean as far as yes they do stiil have plural wives, yes its right, etc. Of course she dont like it, goes from seeing me as a man with the heart of King David to a sinner for thinking the way I do. So she knows I am convinced at least, of course she has trouble accepting it all.

Stupidly, I took "signs" & ran with them, did a lot of damage to her, I had to back track, because it wasnt in the law of love at all. This has all been in what, a month? I had to take Tonya to the mountain, as far as my wants & desires. Doesnt mean I dont love her, means I took her up & gave her to God like Abram did with Isaac. I got a real peace for the first time in forever as far as Tonya goes. I was hyperventlating & plain freaking out, I missed her so much, worried about her, got jealous over her, etc. I thnk that was aprt of my urgency, Im sure it was, just getting my emotions involved.

Since all that, & actually calming down & trusting God, either way, I realize this isnt anything about what I want, I truley believe He is raising me up for these rough times coming. Kind of like end times stuff, & oddly enough, this brought the rest of my "peace" to me. probably realizing I dont have much to do with this mess anyhow, other than my sin that got me into it. :). So, i guess the best revelation I have had so far is that I really cant do much to help this along in the natural (at this point), but I can surely hurt it, & the ladies I love.

As far as Tonya, she understands my spot in her life, but Im not getting her head all twisted with the "big picture", I have one lady that thinks im crazy part of the time, I dont need another. & of course, I take total blame for that.

I actually told Brenda a while back that this wasnt about me, like I thought it was, "my rights", "my feelings", of course still apologizing for how I brought this all about. I explained its basically survival for our families (wont go into all the details). Just tody I was following the birthright & blessings from Joseph back to Abraham. I see cheating, stealing, lying, adultry, often the wrong people getting the blessing (in mans eyes) from Abraham all the way down to Joseph....& that also was about survival, placing Joseph where he was, as I see it.

I'm happy to report Im more on fire for Gods word & seeking His presence & His will than I have ever been, oddly enough, I got here through a deep puddle of sin,,,who would have thought one would come to Christ through sin? LOL

Im also learning how to truly love my wife & minister to my children

In His Love
John
 
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