I would too! If I could. Where are you considering?
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Best place to learn about and study The Torah?
- Thread starter LDremoved
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Thank you! I appreciate you clearing this up for me.
Thank y'all for explaining this to me!
I've also thought about that, but where to go? Most of the places I would consider, NZ, Canada, Japan, Eastern Europe, South America all have tons of problems of their own.
At least here in the USA, I have (1) some like-minded people (2) friends and family (3) guns (4) property (5) a fair amount of preps.
I think my best bet is to live in one of the better and more defendable parts of the USA. I would list those in order of preference as (1) Ozarks of Missouri, Arkansas, Oklahoma (2) The Redoubt mountain west, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, and (3) Appalachia Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia.
Where to?
Most places are worse. The USA is massive and you should be able to find some corner that is not only reasonable to live in, but easier to move to than trying to go overseas.
Four years ago I'd have said "come to New Zealand". Today, a rational analysis would say I should leave NZ myself and move to the USA. But that too will change. It may be better to take root where you have been planted, and try to reduce the rot there.
The first place to study Torah, is to read the Torah (Genesis - Deuteronomy).
The second place is to read the Gospels, and listen to Jesus. All of His preaching was explaining the Torah.
The third place is to read the remaining writings in the New Testament, which exist to explain the Torah and explain the words of Jesus.
The fourth place is to listen to the teachings of men today, which attempt to explain all of the above!
I was a regular listener to @Mark C's Hebrew Nation Radio show for a while a few years ago, and found it very good. However, I stopped listening as it became too repetitive (sorry!), so have no idea what he's been saying recently. But it is worth checking out.
Also check out @PeteR's site https://natsab.com/. Again, lots of good teaching there.
However, I would also suggest that you don't spend your entire time just listening to people who are focussed on following Torah when trying to understand Torah. Also take some time to listen to counter-arguments from mainstream Christians who say that Torah is no longer applicable. In this way, you can test the views of both. Everyone makes errors, so always hear multiple sides of an issue to reduce your risk of following the errors of a single teacher.
The second place is to read the Gospels, and listen to Jesus. All of His preaching was explaining the Torah.
The third place is to read the remaining writings in the New Testament, which exist to explain the Torah and explain the words of Jesus.
The fourth place is to listen to the teachings of men today, which attempt to explain all of the above!
I was a regular listener to @Mark C's Hebrew Nation Radio show for a while a few years ago, and found it very good. However, I stopped listening as it became too repetitive (sorry!), so have no idea what he's been saying recently. But it is worth checking out.
Also check out @PeteR's site https://natsab.com/. Again, lots of good teaching there.
However, I would also suggest that you don't spend your entire time just listening to people who are focussed on following Torah when trying to understand Torah. Also take some time to listen to counter-arguments from mainstream Christians who say that Torah is no longer applicable. In this way, you can test the views of both. Everyone makes errors, so always hear multiple sides of an issue to reduce your risk of following the errors of a single teacher.
Sounds like good advice
The Prophetic books (Daniel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah etc) and the rest of the Old Testament (historical books like Judges, Samuel, Ruth, and the wisdom literature Psalms, Proverbs, etc) also shed light on the meaning of the Torah.
I'd probably list the teachings of Christ in the Gospels (Matthew - John) and the Apostles in the Epistles Hebrews, Romans, Galatians, etc. even above the Torah for understanding the Torah.
As Hebrews chapter 1 verse 1 tells us, the Revelation of God in Christ supercedes all that came before.
As Colossians 2 tells us, the substance is better than the shadow.
Agree, 'mostly,' but with some caveats. Clearly, start in the Beginning (by definition, Bereshiet) and then build - line by line, precept by precept.
Then, look to see (Matthew 5-7, His "first public address", aka the 'sermon on the mount', is a spectacular example) how the Torah Made Flesh literally (as the end of the sequence says) taught as One having Authority. The 'rhetorical device' is, "You have heard it said that..." but, essentially, I'm gonna tell you what I Wrote (although He didn't come right out with that yet.
) He didn't CHANGE it, or even 'raise the bar,' He just connected the dots and explained how His 'instruction' matters.Where I part company a bit is after that. The Writings of Shaul/Paul, for example - as Kefa [aka 'Peter'] pointed out! - are often 'twisted'. 'Cause he can be hard to understand -- especially for the 'unlearned and untaught in His torah/instruction! Again, the Big Failure, I contend, is 'conflation,' and dogma inserted into translation, by those who fail to understand the difference between things LIKE the "law of MEN" as opposed to the 'torah of Moshe'.
But -- especially of interest to people who understand polygyny: I contend that the 'two wives' understanding is FUNDAMENTAL. And many of the prophets addressed the two houses (two wives, two sticks, two kingdoms, Judah and Ephraim, et al) to make the point that BOTH HOUSES are STILL in exile. For cause. And that, whether people like the terminology or not (it's not really mine, it's His) has to do with idolatry/adultery, often with the metaphor of 'whoring'. I refer to the modern descendants of Ahola and Aholoba, in their current blindness, as the [romanized] 'whore church', and the [pharasaic] 'whore synagogue'. One ignores His Written instruction, as Written, the other His Risen Messiah. And both "add to and subtract from" what He Wrote to continue in their idolatry.
PS> Sorry I'm repetitive, but so is He...
...have you noticed how many times, for example, He repeated commandments to "keep MY feasts," "keep My Sabbaths" (note: not 'jewish', but His) and do so 'throughout your generations, in all your dwelling places"? Almost like we need to hear it over and over...
@Mark C, I'm not criticising you, just thought I'd be honest why I wasn't listening to your show any more. I just didn't have enough time in my day to keep listening to the same information once I'd absorbed your primary points, so I listened to you for a while then, once I felt I understood where you were coming from and wasn't learning so much for the time investment, moved on to feed my mind with other information. It's a good show. I thought you'd be pleased I actually chose to listen to you regularly for a while and was recommending others did the same, rather than concerned that I'd stopped!
I agree that such writings can be difficult to understand and twisted by men. However, they still exist to explain Torah and Yeshua - Paul and all the other letter writers are basically addressing the specific situations the different churches were facing, and explaining what scripture means in that situation. Applying Torah and Yeshua's preaching to real life. Paul's letters may certainly be confusing at times and need to be read in the light of other passages in order to get the correct meaning - but that doesn't change the fact that they exist for the purpose of explaining Torah and Yeshua. You just have to read all the authors - including both Paul and Peter - to get the full picture.
You're still leaving out Deep East Texas (Nacogdoches, Angelina, Shelby, San Augustine and Sabine Counties).
Again, no disagreement on the main point, Samuel - provided we recognize the translation bias, and recognize UP FRONT that Paul was never contradicting His Master or changing His instruction. Not what "many" denominations (and all of the 'whore church') teach.
And the far southern Boondocks of the Colorado Rockies. Where folks like Lauren Boebert recognize why Denver/Boulder isn't REALLY even the same state.You're still leaving out Deep East Texas (Nacogdoches, Angelina, Shelby, San Augustine and Sabine Counties).
I am looking at iceland greenland or there is a few remote islands secluded from almost anything but plenty of seafood to catch
I agree.
I am of the mind recently that all our permissions and prohibitions should trace back to the Ten Commandments. There are actions not specifically mentioned in scripture but fall into the "foolish" category.
Like thinking participation on Facebook will be harmless?
You might want to check out Dr. William (Bill) Schnoebelen on YT. He came to Torah by way of evangelical christianity, by way of LDS, by way of Satanisn, by way of Catholicism. I know that sounds REALLY crazy, but if anyone knows by experience it would be him!
I'm not really sure why. After all, Yahushua Himself said that the most important commandment in His Book begins "Shema, Israel..." (Deuteronomy 6:4 and related.)
But this week's regular (annual cycle) Torah parsha (portion) is called "Vaetchanan" - from chapters 3 through 7, and includes all of that, as well as the entirely-ignored commandment (by BOTH idolatrous wives/kingdoms - the Whore Church AND the Whore Synagogue
not to "add to, nor subtract from, His Word." Certainly, some of those ten are likewise twisted, or ignored outright.
And this week, after what has transpired to hopefully actually 'awaken' some of the Most Blind, it's becoming more clear why He warned (Matthew chapter 24) that the love of so many would "grow cold," because - Torah-less-ness abounds. And we see what happens after centuries of build-up to the point where those ten (plus) are ignored almost as blatantly as the ten "thou shalt NOTs" in the Bill of Rights.
A complaint I hear frequently from the 'evangelical right' is that "there's no POWER in 'the church'." A look at what happens when that 'church' ignores His Word, as Written, is a good place to start:
Mark Call – Parsha “Vaetchanan” teaching from Shabbat Shalom Mesa
Join Mark Call of Shabbat Shalom Mesa fellowship for a two-part study of parsha “Vaetchanan,” (Deuteronomy 3:23 – 7:11) and which includes not only the ‘reprise’ of th…
hebrewnationonline.com
That command to not add or subtract from His Word, really is routinely ignored.I'm not really sure why. After all, Yahushua Himself said that the most important commandment in His Book begins "Shema, Israel..." (Deuteronomy 6:4 and related.)
But this week's regular (annual cycle) Torah parsha (portion) is called "Vaetchanan" - from chapters 3 through 7, and includes all of that, as well as the entirely-ignored commandment (by BOTH idolatrous wives/kingdoms - the Whore Church AND the Whore Synagogue
Certainly, some of those ten are likewise twisted, or ignored outright.
And this week, after what has transpired to hopefully actually 'awaken' some of the Most Blind, it's becoming more clear why He warned (Matthew chapter 24) that the love of so many would "grow cold," because - Torah-less-ness abounds. And we see what happens after centuries of build-up to the point where those ten (plus) are ignored almost as blatantly as the ten "thou shalt NOTs" in the Bill of Rights.
A complaint I hear frequently from the 'evangelical right' is that "there's no POWER in 'the church'." A look at what happens when that 'church' ignores His Word, as Written, is a good place to start:
Mark Call – Parsha “Vaetchanan” teaching from Shabbat Shalom Mesa
Join Mark Call of Shabbat Shalom Mesa fellowship for a two-part study of parsha “Vaetchanan,” (Deuteronomy 3:23 – 7:11) and which includes not only the ‘reprise’ of th…
One time I was in a pastoral search committee for an Evangelical church (before getting kicked out.over polygamy). I asked one of the prospective pastors about this danger of "adding to the text of the Bible", and how he tried to guard against doing so in his sermons. I think the question really caught him off guard, and he seemed to have no real answer.
That's sad as he should be actively studying to avoid adding to or subtracting from anything in Scripture. The responsibility is very clearly presented in e.g. 2 Tim. 4:2; Preach the Word! Every man of God should have a plan; a methodology, in place to ensure he is not preaching anything other than the Word. And if he doesn't have a clear methodology in place, how will he know if he's preaching popular beliefs, traditions, foolishness or heresy?