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Support My betrothed (third wife) just issued a challenge.

R

R.A. Harris

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So, as I mentioned, I live with my two wives and am betrothed to a third. However, my betrothed third wife is from a family who belief in Roman monogamy, and she has issued a challenge to me to convince her, over the course of fourteen Bible studies on fourteen nights, of what I thought she already knew: that Patriarchal Polygyny is Biblically sound. "I want you to be right about this," she has said. "But I'm not confident enough in what you've shown me to go against my family, my church and all my friends who I may lose. I need you to convince me that this kind of marriage is right, and convince me enough that I can look my family in the eye and say I am obeying God rather than them."
Why is this a little new for me?
Well, I've written essays and articles (and even published a day-by-day women's devotional) showing the Scriptural precedent of polygynous marriage. Writing is easy. I can take all the time I need to look up verses, cite commentaries, and re-type everything to make every word just right.
A Bible Study though, with questions and objections presented in real time, at "combat speed" as it were, is new to me. I've never had to do this in-person before.

Any advice?
 
Know your stuff ahead of time and it will just flow out. Review all your sources again. I had a similar “debate” with my daughter in real time with quick responses and I knew the material so well it just flowed out naturally as I was presented with counter arguments.
 
Don't plan to preach at her. Work out in advance what you need to discuss, and what you should be looking up in scripture or elsewhere to discuss - don't work out 14 lessons, maybe half a dozen and leave the rest to study questions that arise in those. So, there's a clear plan - but a very flexible one, without a wordy script. The plan is just a list of topics, verses etc. Get her to read the verses and work out what they mean, with your guidance. You're simply guiding her to figure it out and understand it for herself. The words will come naturally.
 
Go back to the foundation. What is God's example? Spend some time working up a bullet point list of common arguments against polygyny and know the answers to refute them. I have a lot of them already recorded and I'm happy to share. PM for email.

Other than that, exactly what FollowingHim stated above.
 
R.A. Harris said:
So, as I mentioned, I live with my two wives and am betrothed to a third. However, my betrothed third wife is from a family who belief in Roman monogamy, and she has issued a challenge to me to convince her, over the course of fourteen Bible studies on fourteen nights, of what I thought she already knew: that Patriarchal Polygyny is Biblically sound. "I want you to be right about this," she has said. "But I'm not confident enough in what you've shown me to go against my family, my church and all my friends who I may lose. I need you to convince me that this kind of marriage is right, and convince me enough that I can look my family in the eye and say I am obeying God rather than them."
Why is this a little new for me?
Well, I've written essays and articles (and even published a day-by-day women's devotional) showing the Scriptural precedent of polygynous marriage. Writing is easy. I can take all the time I need to look up verses, cite commentaries, and re-type everything to make every word just right.
A Bible Study though, with questions and objections presented in real time, at "combat speed" as it were, is new to me. I've never had to do this in-person before.

Any advice?
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Did she started to lose attraction for you? Does she seems less interested recently?

Why is she suddenly interested in Biblical justification? I'm certain she knows rest of your ladies and has probably meet them.

Why your justification so far isn't enough? And your current writing not enough?

Maybe you should start talking with her what she see as potential objections. And be careful, it's probably other issues are there.

It's seems to me that she is far more worried about her family/friends reactions. Like they will say it's bad because......, and she won't have answer.
 
NickF said:
Go back to the foundation. What is God's example? Spend some time working up a bullet point list of common arguments against polygyny and know the answers to refute them. I have a lot of them already recorded and I'm happy to share. PM for email.

Other than that, exactly what FollowingHim stated above.
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Regarding the arguments against polygamy, that's important, but it's secondary in my opinion.

The first thing is the positive argument - how it fits into God's plan for humanity, why polygamy makes marriage and sexual sin make sense. It's the key that, when accepted, makes everything else make sense - why adultery is defined by the status of the woman and not of the man, what the parable of the brides and the lamps means, the relevance of the proverb about "a cord of three strands", all sorts of stuff.

This is what you are defending, and why you are defending it.

The secondary thing to handle is how you would defend it, why you would not personally be shaken by other arguments, and that's going through all the arguments against it and refuting them. But this would be entirely pointless if you didn't actually value polygamy as something valuable, true and worth defending in the first place.
 
Oh fast paced lessons are tough but I've had to do them a lot. Let's see, focus on what would affect her as an individual (we all learn differently), study a hell of a lot the short time before and prepare, but most importantly just be ready to deviate and say what the spirit wants you to. God knows her best and knows what she needs to hear.
Prayer is the best convincing power. She needs to pray about it for herself and seek to obtain an answer from the Most High. I'm sure you are praying for her and I'm sure she is praying as well, but still God is willing to answer prayers and help teach us right. We just have to be willing to accept his will no matter what it is and be patient.
Once he has answered a prayer and the person knows it with all their heart and then rejects it things become much harder.
Do you think she might be willing to chat with some of the women here? I mean I'm sure your wives help but the more witnesses and the more experience with it the more you can understand or find people who can speak in a way you understand easier.
 
Are you prepared for her to walk away if she decides you have not provided sufficient evidence? She sounds like she may already have one foot out of the door and will just issue challenge after challenge for all eternity. If a woman wants a man she will make it work not issue challenges over topics you already discussed.
 
MeganC said:
You don't need to convince her of anything. She knows your family, she knows you. What's next is up to her. Tell her to make up her mind and choose.
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Excellent!
 
MemeFan said:
Why your justification so far isn't enough? And your current writing not enough?

Maybe you should start talking with her what she see as potential objections. And be careful, it's probably other issues are there.
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If you truly did already talk with her about the righteousness of polygyny and she accepted your proposal fully knowing what you believe and that you have 2 other wives, then I have to agree with @MemeFan that something else is going on for her now. It is a great chance for you to lead her into a deeper understanding of your coming headship/covering for her, especially when she is fearful or scared about how much her life will change if she marries you.
 
You have had long discussions with her, long enough for her to say yes polygyny is a Biblical form of marriage and as you stated above, you asked her to marry you and she obviously said yes, because you refer to her as your betrothed. The wicked one will do whatever he can to destroy Biblical Truth.
julieb said:
...she is fearful or scared about how much her life will change if she marries you.
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Think about it, she is going against everything this feminist society has taught all of us and this life style goes against the grain, however the Blessings and even trials are so fulfilling, more precious than gold. I think of the things that @Proverbs3.5 and I went through when our children, other family member and friends found out that we just believe, support and open to this Truth. And like others have mentioned on this forum and at retreats, some come around and accept you and some don't. Remember the Holiest man that walked the earth was loved by some, hated by most, and then crucified, and that my friend is something that can happen. May YaHWeH give you Shalom as you speak His words to your betrothed.
 
We, as women, are susceptible to feeling a tremendous amount of insecurity, guilt, and shame, particularly when our family's judgements come into play. Your soon-to-be third wife may be feeling this way, especially if they're telling her that her future actions are sinful.

What really created a place of peace for me was finally understanding that it's not a sin. Scripture is fairly straightforward about what is condemned. Where is polygyny condemned?

No amount of questioning can make it sinful.

The Lord didn't condemn Sarah, Abraham, or Hagar.

When Hagar was pregnant and fled, the angel of the Lord commanded her to return to her mistress and submit herself, she was promised the Lord would multiply her seed exceedingly. If polygyny were a sin, why would she be ordered back to a sinful situation and blessed with more children as a result of the sin? Ishmael, was later blessed as well. That's just one instance.
 
theleastofthese said:
We, as women, are susceptible to feeling a tremendous amount of insecurity, guilt, and shame, particularly when our family's judgements come into play. Your soon-to-be third wife may be feeling this way, especially if they're telling her that her future actions are sinful.
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Thank you, as this seems to be a serious problem for many women. Even though a woman might intellectually acknowledge polygyny is not a sin, the pressures of guilt and shame from family and friends causes a great deal of doubt and insecurity. I wonder, @R.A. Harris, if this may be what your woman is dealing with? The potential loss of those close relationships may be eating away at her and she is struggling with the legitimacy of becoming another of your wives. It may not be 'proof' as much as confident reassurance in your steadfastness in the truth that she needs. Just my thoughts here... . Cheers
 
Ask her if a man who has multiple wives can be considered a man with clean hands, or that he could be considered righteous and blameless. Then show her the heading on Psalms 18. Ask her how many wives did David have when Saul died. Ask her if David wrote this chapter under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Ask her if she believes that the Holy Spirit is God who cannot lie. Ask her if she believes the words found in Psalms 18 are infallible. Show her verses 20-24.
20 The Lord has dealt with me according to my righteousness;
according to the cleanness of my hands he has rewarded me.
21 For I have kept the ways of the Lord;
I am not guilty of turning from my God.
22 All his laws are before me;
I have not turned away from his decrees.
23 I have been blameless before him
and have kept myself from sin.
24 The Lord has rewarded me according to my righteousness,
according to the cleanness of my hands in his sight.

Ask her if it is not sinful to have more than one wife, what are the odds that it is NOT God's Will for ANYONE to practice it. Narrow it down from the 8 billion plus people on this planet to however many people are in her hometown. Ask her, if it is possible that it might be God's will for her, would she be willing to say "yes" to God. If God were to ask her to join a polygynous family, would she refuse to do what God has directed her to do. Assure her that you are not trying to say that this is what God wants for her, but rather that it is POSSIBLE that it might be what God would have her to do. Show her Rom 12:2 which says, "Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will." Explain to her that we can either be willing to say "yes" to wherever God leads, or we can put limitations on Him and tell Him that we will only go where He leads, if He leads us where we want Him to lead us.
 
frederick said:
Even though a woman might intellectually acknowledge polygyny is not a sin, the pressures of guilt and shame from family and friends causes a great deal of doubt and insecurity. I wonder, @R.A. Harris, if this may be what your woman is dealing with? The potential loss of those close relationships may be eating away at her and she is struggling with the legitimacy of becoming another of your wives. It may not be 'proof' as much as confident reassurance in your steadfastness in the truth that she needs.
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This is precisely what I've thought.
 
theleastofthese said:
We, as women, are susceptible to feeling a tremendous amount of insecurity, guilt, and shame, particularly when our family's judgements come into play. Your soon-to-be third wife may be feeling this way, especially if they're telling her that her future actions are sinful.
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She all but stated that this was the case. And by the way, it went well. After several hours of discussion, it came down to her flatly admitting "I love you but I don't want that love to be a sin." When I showed her it isn't, she broke down in my arms and cried for having doubted that she was right where God put her: with me.
Thank you all for your prayers.
 
theleastofthese said:
The Lord didn't condemn Sarah, Abraham, or Hagar.

When Hagar was pregnant and fled, the angel of the Lord commanded her to return to her mistress and submit herself, she was promised the Lord would multiply her seed exceedingly. If polygyny were a sin, why would she be ordered back to a sinful situation and blessed with more children as a result of the sin? Ishmael, was later blessed as well. That's just one instance.
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This quote is so precious for us and it is so encouraging to see it here. We have, what I would call, a very hierarchical houe and my husband's first wife is over us (yes we do call her mistress) and his second wife is over me. We try to be fairly quiet about it, but it causes so much consternation (maybe moreso than there being three wives) everywhere except in the home, which is a happy and orderly place.

It is such a privilege to be able to spend time here and not feel judged or condemned. Thank you to the forum and all who post here, though much I do have to ask at home for explanations :).
 
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