The beginning of sin of David with Bathsheba, 2 Samuel 11

[frederick]

I have heard it said that David's sin with Bathsheba began when he stayed in Jerusalem when he should have gone out to battle. We read in 2 Samuel 11:1, But David remained at Jerusalem. A preacher I listened to recently made the comment that there is nothing in the text to indicate David was doing anything wrong in remaining at Jerusalem.

I've also heard preachers say David was in sin for being on the roof in the evening when he would have known he might see something inappropriate. Again, there is nothing in the text to indicate David was consciously doing something wrong.

After he saw the beautiful woman (Bathsheba) bathing (v:2), he sent and inquired about the woman (v:3). The M-O crowd suggest David was in sin for sending someone to find out about her. I contend that there was no sin until after David was informed she was Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam, the wife of Uriah the Hittite (v:3). Until this point David may have considered taking her as another wife but, once informed of her situation as another man's wife, he should have abandoned any further thoughts concerning her. Apply Matthew 5:27-28 here.

My thought is, if she was free and available there would have been no sin of adultery. What are your thoughts on this matter? When did the sin begin?

 

[steve]

Sin didn’t begin when he stayed home, but it couldn’t have happened if he had been with his men.
It also couldn’t have happened if that particular conflict hadn’t happened. The husband would have been at home.

He broke one of the big Ten, he coveted his neighbor’s wife when he found out that she was taken, which shouldn’t have been an unreasonable assumption to begin with.
Lust is simply part of life, until you find that the object of your lust is verboten. At that point you are choosing to sin if you don’t deny yourself.

 

[frederick]

Sun didn’t begin when he stayed home, but it couldn’t have happened if he had been with his men.

I agree, but we could apply that to most sin situations we get into.

He broke one of the big Ten, he coveted his neighbor’s wife when he found out that she was taken, which shouldn’t have been an unreasonable assumption to begin with.
Lust is simply part of life, until you find that the object of your lust is verboten. At that point you are choosing to sin if you don’t deny yourself.

Are you of the opinion the sin began once he found out she belonged to another man and continued to desire her? If he would have stopped the moment he found out, no sin would have occurred?

 

[steve]

In that day

Are you of the opinion the sin began once he found out she belonged to another man and continued to desire her? If he would have stopped the moment he found out, no sin would have occurred?

Yes
But I would say that he was already in the gray area in assuming that an attractive adult woman might be available. The odds were greatly against it in those days.

 

[Bartato]

The sin started when David continued to desire her knowing that she was a married woman. It got worse when he committed the physical act of adultery, followed by the sin of murder.

The other stuff is prudence. It would have probably been better to be with his men in the field. It might be wiser not to be up on the roof in the evening. Like Steve said, at the time, it was probably wise to assume than an attractive adult woman wasn't available.

Still, those things don't seem to be sin.

 

[Victorious]

In that day

Yes
But I would say that he was already in the gray area in assuming that an attractive adult woman might be available. The odds were greatly against it in those days.

Not to split hairs, but to my thinking, there is a great difference between "Wow, she is gorgeous!! Is she available?" and "Check out Judah's wife. Wonder if she'd go for actryst next time he's out of town?"

 

[steve]

Not to split hairs, but to my thinking, there is a great difference between "Wow, she is gorgeous!! Is she available?" and "Check out Judah's wife. Wonder if she'd go for actryst next time he's out of town?"

Of course. But you miss my point.
Unlike today, there were extremely few unattached women running around loose back then. If you saw one you should pretty much assume that she was taken. Getting his hopes up was probably the start of the slide into and through the grey area.
It wasn’t sin, but it started opening the door.

 

[MemeFan]

Sin began with Bathsheba?

Why was she even bathing in view of king? Maybe some modesty is lacking?


Maybe she is trying to seduce king?

Remember, her son Solomon wasn't firstborn. So we can assume she was willing to "use influence" to advance...

 

[steve]

Sin began with Bathsheba?

Why was she even bathing in view of king? Maybe some modesty is lacking?


Maybe she is trying to seduce king?

Remember, her son Solomon wasn't firstborn. So we can assume she was willing to "use influence" to advance...

Assumptions are free, easy to make.
We all have operated under the assumption that she was nekked in her bathing, but it is possible that she was much more careful than that. Bringing a washcloth under a house dress or the equivalent.

 

[Man_in_the_Middle]

Assumptions are free, easy to make.
We all have operated under the assumption that she was nekked in her bathing, but it is possible that she was much more careful than that. Bringing a washcloth under a house dress or the equivalent.

Enough was showing that "she was very beautiful to look upon...."

Could'a just been her eyes... lol

2Sa 11:2 And it came to pass in an eveningtide, that David arose from off his bed, and walked upon the roof of the king's house: and from the roof he saw a woman washing herself; and the woman was very beautiful to look upon.

 

[frederick]

In that day

Yes
But I would say that he was already in the gray area in assuming that an attractive adult woman might be available. The odds were greatly against it in those days.

Is there any indication in the biblical text as to her age? Just a thought here; since it was evening, low light, unknown distance, how do you suppose he would have been able to determine her age? Thanks Steve.

 

[frederick]

it was probably wise to assume than an attractive adult woman wasn't available.

How would David have known her age since it was evening? I doubt she had put the lights on to take her bath up there on the roof... .

 

[frederick]

Assumptions are free, easy to make.

Exactly, and that's my concern with this situation. I have been as guilty as everyone else of seeing things in the passage that aren't there.

 

[frederick]

Enough was showing that "she was very beautiful to look upon...."

Could'a just been her eyes... lol

Yes, and David had the resources to care for multiple wives. Looking at a beautiful woman might have just sparked a thought about adding another.

We seem to miss the piece in the text that says, Then it happened one evening that David arose from his bed... (v:2). It was evening and David had been in bed already. The author thought it necessary to include these details to help us avoid certain speculative suppositions.

 

[steve]

Is there any indication in the biblical text as to her age? Just a thought here; since it was evening, low light, unknown distance, how do you suppose he would have been able to determine her age? Thanks Steve.

He could see her well enough to perceive her to be beautiful.
I am guessing that you are asking about my assumption that she was an adult, they considered women adult enough to be married at a much younger age than we do.
I had never considered that she could have been a 14 year old married woman, but it certainly is a possibility. She seemingly hadn’t born any children yet, but was fertile enough to get pregnant in the first encounter.

 

[steve]

It was evening and David had been in bed already. The author thought it necessary to include these details to help us avoid certain speculative suppositions.

What speculative suppositions would those be?

 

[Bartato]

How would David have known her age since it was evening? I doubt she had put the lights on to take her bath up there on the roof... .

I am of the opinion that in those times women generally married quite young especially if they were beautiful like Bathsheba. If a woman was much past puberty, she was probably married.

Perhaps this understanding is incorrect.

My own great grandmother was married at 14 or 15 in the early 20th century USA and was a respectable Christian woman (not shotgun wedding or anything).

 

[Man_in_the_Middle]

...

My own great grandmother was married at 14 or 15 in the early 20th century USA and was a respectable Christian woman (not shotgun wedding or anything).

It is interesting to see the angst many people have around people being married as young as 18 when they are deemed legal to do so. They go apoplectic over the age your grandma got married at.

If everyone had to wait until they were mature before getting married, humans would die out!!

 

[frederick]

What speculative suppositions would those be?

That it was broad daylight and he could see the colour of her eyes through her head covering.

 

[frederick]

It is interesting to see the angst many people have around people being married as young as 18 when they are deemed legal to do so. They go apoplectic over the age your grandma got married at.

Some on the forum get a little twitchy when it is suggested people should marry younger than 18 even when that's quite legal in some countries. I personally know of people who married at 16 and who have remained married to this day.

Back to the topic; David obviously had chosen some of his wives for himself. Therefor he must have found some unattached women somewhere previously to have taken them as wives. I don't know his heart, so want to stick with what is actually recorded.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to defend David for his sin of adultery, rather wanting to establish what was actually sin and what wasn't. I don't want to be guilty of finding fault when there was none to be found. The M-O advocates do that to us more than enough.