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Support What to do when spouse rejects her faith

I will let him speak for himself.
I didn’t get that he had tried anything more than being more assertive in some specific circumstances.
Maybe you are reading too much into it, maybe you are spot on. Only he can give us clarity.


There’s also the possibility that her initial reaction was not one that she was willing to continue to operate in.
 
Sean Miller said:
Update :

Thanks everyone for your feedback and prayers! I am very familiar of the red pill movement and for fear of not being "nice" I did not implement some of the important things like mentioned in the post and videos shared on my thread here. I have just stepped up my game, no more "what do you want" or talking in a soft gentle, kind voice. Gosh that sounds like a ass thing to say but honestly being my authoritative self and speaking in a deeper voice and a commanding tone has been good! A bit of a challenge to stay on top of doing because I did it the opposite for so long though!

Needless to say, since I have been home from my business trip, doing these things mentioned above, and the results have been surprisingly good! Neither wife has asked me why I am talking this way or questioned me when I have said "we are doing this" or "I want you to do...". I don't leave sentances open for a rebudal either, or by saying things like "I would like you to". I haven't had a single argument or fight with them and lately my 1st was referring to God and scriptures in a discussion and I was pleased to hear her referring back to those ways of thinking.IIt does seem to be working and I feel so much less stressed and on end because I'm not being tossed around by the ladies moods or behaviour, I stick to my guns, am loving yet firm. It really does work! I am greatfull for the reminder/advice on this, so thank you!!

Please keep praying for her and her return to the faith. I do think I need to be more proactive in home church on the weekends, I've been a bit laxed on it and feel convicted about it, so prayer for discipline and desire to be in the word with the family more would be appreciated. Life gets busy and it gets put aside to much to do a formal Church time at home. Honestly I've felt so intimidated as well because of my 1st studies and "what's she thinking about what I am teaching", and "will she challenge what I am teaching" fears. I'm working on stepping out of that intimidation and just bit the bullet.

So, that's it in a nut shell. Thanks again everyone, love to you all!
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This is what I'm talking about. It doesn't get more clear than for him to say "It really does work!" Her refusal to submit, in the first place, is the root cause, so if she is not willing to operate in that submissive role, that is where consequences for disobedience, come into play. I think we can all relate to the fear of not being "nice". Most of us can also relate to the challenge of doing this when we have done the opposite for so long. The beauty of it, is that God is like this with us, sans the fear. He promises blessings for obedience, and curses for disobedience, yet He is long-suffering and patient with us as well.
 
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Evidence:
I did not implement some of the important things like mentioned in the post and videos

Methinks thou doth project too much.
 
steve said:
Evidence:
I did not implement some of the important things like mentioned in the post and videos

Methinks thou doth project too much.
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Focus on what he DID say that he implemented.
 
It’s silly of us to argue about this when Sean will at some point tell us where we are off
 
I just disagree with my understanding of the concept and wouldn’t want people to see this site as endorsing it.
Quite frankly, I cannot imagine trying to operate in that manner with more than one wife.
 
steve said:
I just disagree with my understanding of the concept and wouldn’t want people to see this site as endorsing it.
Quite frankly, I cannot imagine trying to operate in that manner with more than one wife.
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I'm not sure how your understanding differs from what has been shared here in this thread. Have you followed the links that @eye4them has shared?
 
steve said:
wouldn’t want people to see this site as endorsing it.
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I'm sorry, I've looked back thru the thread, and I cannot confidently determine what exact point this discussion is regarding.
Could you help me understand what particular point you would not want people to see this site as endorsing? Thanks.
 
I think we could all agree that a man taking leadership is good and right. Where we disagree is on precisely what form that leadership should take, and on how to interpret the "evidence" in this particular case.

We all look at the same evidence, but can come to widely differing conclusions from it, so just pointing back to the evidence does not prove your personal conclusion any more than it proves someone else's.

Sean stated that his wife responded positively to basic adjustments in his demeanour to be more assertive, adjustments which (on the whole) we would all consider positive. He specifically said he did not do the more "extreme" (for want of a better word) actions suggested by some. So the evidence is that moderate steps to being more assertive bore positive fruit temporarily. There is no data on the effect of stronger measures with this particular pair of people.

Some are hypothesising that this means more extreme measures would bear even more positive fruit. That may or may not be true, but it remains a hypothesis with no evidence to either support or oppose it. Only assertions that it should work based on the experience of others, logic, or personal faith in the righteousness of the approach.
 
The only thing we know for sure is that the nice form of leadership failed. Whether his ship can still be turned around or not, even if he does use a more effective strategy (whatever that is), is an open question.

And fail it did, it's not just costing him his marriage, but a soul may have been lost.
 
Did his leadership fail or did she choose to step out of his leadership? What of his other wive’s?I’m not sure he failed. The story isn’t over yet.
Did God fail because His ‘wives’ chose another way of life? Freewill of a spouse isn’t necessarily failure in leadership.
I’m not a husband, but as a mom I know correcting one child’s attitude and actions is not a ‘one size fits all’ process in my parenting. Each child is different and requires a (possible) different consequence, conversation, or correction then the other two kids that commit the same sin.
He seems to be ‘knowing his wife’ and graciously figuring out how to lovingly lead her back to God, truth, and himself. Spiritual warfare in a home is incredibly wearisome.
Their Family could use a lot of prayer from all of us.
 
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Well loved wife said:
Did his leadership fail or did she choose to step out of his leadership? What of his other wive’s?I’m not sure he failed. The story isn’t over yet.
Did God fail because His ‘wives’ chose another way of life? Freewill of a spouse isn’t necessarily failure in leadership.
I’m not a husband, but as a mom I know correcting one child’s attitude and actions is not a ‘one size fits all’ process in my parenting. Each child is different and requires a (possible) different consequence, conversation, or correction then the other two kids that commit the same sin.
He seems to be ‘knowing his wife’ and graciously figuring out how to lovingly lead her back to God, truth, and himself. Spiritual warfare in a home is incredibly wearisome.
Their Family could use a lot of prayer from all of us.
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Amen
 
FollowingHim said:
Some are hypothesising that this means more extreme measures would bear even more positive fruit. That may or may not be true, but it remains a hypothesis with no evidence to either support or oppose it. Only assertions that it should work based on the experience of others, logic, or personal faith in the righteousness of the approach.
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Nobody is hypothesizing that more extreme measures would bear even more fruit. What has been stated, is the fact that he tried it, it worked, and he stopped doing that, and it failed. Some here want to throw the whole concept away, without even fully examining it, because they are uncomfortable with it, and while that is understandable, it is hardly commendable. Now more steps may need to be taken, if the initial reaction does not play out over the long term, but think of it the way God disciplines His children. It is always for the purpose of making us more like Christ!
 
Well loved wife said:
Did his leadership fail or did she choose to step out of his leadership? What of his other wive’s?I’m not sure he failed. The story isn’t over yet.
Did God fail because His ‘wives’ chose another way of life? Freewill of a spouse isn’t necessarily failure in leadership.
I’m not a husband, but as a mom I know correcting one child’s attitude and actions is not a ‘one size fits all’ process in my parenting. Each child is different and requires a (possible) different consequence, conversation, or correction then the other two kids that commit the same sin.
He seems to be ‘knowing his wife’ and graciously figuring out how to lovingly lead her back to God, truth, and himself. Spiritual warfare in a home is incredibly wearisome.
Their Family could use a lot of prayer from all of us.
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If you watched the video that @eye4them shared, one of the first points that was raised, is that if your wife does not submit to you, it is your fault. The point is, the husband who leads, will have a wife (or wives) who follow. That is the way God wired them.
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
If you watched the video that @eye4them shared, one of the first points that was raised, is that if your wife does not submit to you, it is your fault. The point is, the husband who leads, will have a wife (or wives) who follow. That is the way God wired them.
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God is the Perfect Spouse leading His wives. According to e.g. Ezek. 23 they didn't always submit and follow. My leading is nowhere near perfect like His so when my wives submit and follow, I'm super grateful, and He gets the praise for what He's doing in their lives. Husbands and wives all fail, some a little more than others yes, but we should all be growing in our walk and relationship with Him. Shalom.
 
frederick said:
God is the Perfect Spouse leading His wives. According to e.g. Ezek. 23 they didn't always submit and follow. My leading is nowhere near perfect like His so when my wives submit and follow, I'm super grateful, and He gets the praise for what He's doing in their lives. Husbands and wives all fail, some a little more than others yes, but we should all be growing in our walk and relationship with Him. Shalom.
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And of course, when they refused to submit, and went after idols, He allowed them to go into captivity.
 
Followship must be learned just as leadership must be learned.

Some have an easier time learning how to follow because of their leader.

Some men never learn to lead. Some women never learn to follow. Some women have been taught by their leader that it is unwise to follow him too closely. It’s the Luke 6:39 principle. That’s why God made both the leaders and the followers with eyes, not just the leaders. Faith in leadership only goes so far when you’re constantly finding yourself in midair because of being led off a cliff.

Both leading and following are a conscious choice and both demand dying to self.
 
Daniel DeLuca said:
one of the first points that was raised, is that if your wife does not submit to you, it is your fault.
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I see a lot of people are missing the point of this.

In the practical situation of a man seeking how to fix his marriage, pinning the blame on her is counter productive. He can't magically change her behavior. But he can change his actions, improve himself and how he leads her. Especially since much of the time her behavior is rooted in his own leadership failings. If he's stuck in an "it's her fault because she won't submit" mindset he'll never make necessary changes.

Don't take this as making her innocent. I come down on the exact opposite side of this argument when talking to/about women. He is responsible to lead and she is responsible to follow; regardless how the other behaves. A woman should submit and follow, and doing so in a godly way can cover a multitude of leadership failures. But the church is always quick to lay all the blame for a divorce on the man, thereby absolving and justifying the woman who rebelled and divorced him. So too in teaching couples how to improve their marriage do they lay all the burden on men and none on women.
 
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